GoD-Tony Decision:
Taking this blog in a slightly different direction, I'll write a bit about my thoughts on DotA AI and the retirement of BuffMePlz.
I recently received an email from BMP informing me of his decision, as well as his offer of general guidance to lead my own AI project. My first reaction was "Why didn't I get an email like this sooner?"
I believe that if an AI project had been worked together by a team of people, then it wouldn't have come down to this. It's really too much to take on by one person.
The idea of posting my Pre-Alpha builds of RGB's AI for the newest version at the time was to spark some interest in development in an otherwise dead scene. I knew BMP wasn't interested in wasting his time with people that thought they "could help" but couldn't do anything other than offer another opinion. This was a way of proving that there were certainly people interested in helping, myself and Cipd included
That was almost a year ago when my interest for developing AI was at it's peak, and when I received no response regarding those maps, I moved on to the next idea. This was to create an Open AI for DotA that could be ported to the latest version almost instantly, and Open in the sense that it would be very easy for others to contribute (especially open source).
Even though I completed the code-base for this project, it still needed some real AI to go along with it. This was back in January, and once again with no response or input from the ones I contacted, and the continuation of BMPs' ports of RGBs' maps, I decided that it was a wasted effort.
What I'm getting at here is that it's basically too little too late. I believe DotA for Warcraft 3 is near it's death. With Heroes of Newerth released just days ago, Starcraft 2 coming out this year, and the possibility of IceFrog moving on to Valve, by the time I created a decent AI, DotA would be on a different platform.
I don't see myself working on an AI for DotA now or in the future, and the only way I could see this changing is if some very ambitious developers came forward and teamed up as it should be done.
So, as you can see GoD-Tony has simply refused to make DotA AI Maps. We still hope someone would take his place!
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89 Comments yet..:
Tony its ok if you dont wanna work but your thinking is wrong DotA is not dying at all.. heroes of newerth cant take dota's place.. if it does.. then IceFrog will come up with his new game by the help of Valve..
so s2games keep dreaming =)
so you guys (both god-tony and bmp) are crying that you didnt get proper source-code from Icefrog?
So sad...this guy think HoN, can replace DotA? hahahaha come on, you got to be kidding me.! Long life to Icefrog.! Dota comunity needs someone with GUTS to take the responsability of developing AI maps.!
AI map is for noobs and low lifers with no internet...
AI is how i get new players into dota...and we are not all "lowlifes"
AI maps are needed to practice especially when the dota comunity is so unforgiving to newbs....
If AI goes down dota becomes elitist
gooo dota
lol tiny, think what u want :) thanks for ur reply any way.
Well, reading all this, I just want to say that he certainly can choose whatever to develop AI maps or not. If he finds it senseless, no reason to force him into it
yes... if AI ended, newbies wouldn´t have practice, so they wouldn´t play dota or they would play "feeding style"... it´s a pity that God-Tony refused the offer :(
DOTA isnt gonna die,unless no one makes a map,cuz dota is fun,when u play with friends. + hero of newerth (HON) is lame for me (thats my opinion).its HQ and hard to play unlike dota .I hope somebody will make the AI map fast.
i agree with the 1st anony because HoN is longer open beta what kind of idiot will buy that game. the graphics and skill animation is the only thing great about it and the iteam are so imba no orb effect fck S2 games
it's like a nightmare when i read this news,,,,T_T
Why don't BMP make the last ai map??
so a remembrance... bye BMP...
DotA is not gonna die..DotA will not!
they will combine forces!!how about a new graphics dota? 2d or 3d??
killerbee you are just bitching.. i dont respect you.. you did nothing for us except 6v6 map.. icefrog already inserted the 6v6 code.. you just turned it on and nothing else..
NO RESPECT FOR YOU!
i used to play ai maps when i didnt have any internet connection.. it helped me a lot in practicing dota... it should not be stopped.. i hope god-tony will find someone who could help in developing dota..
its such a big joke 4 us! ur just a big damn in dota communities........
heroes of newerth sucks. it copies dota game as i see.btw, i hope that someone can take place on developing new dota AI maps soon. :)
afterall, HoN id is not for free doesnt it?
Everything has the start, has the end. You guys are not thinking about those DotA development members? You know..make a map like this need up to one month or one year! And they need the member to make this map. You think Icefrog is alone making this DotA? If you try make this, you can?
You guys simply say want to be a high graphic DotA. Make it long life. It just saying, but can be success? It need a lot of programming code, 3D graphic engine, software development and much more... It can taking 2-3 years to finish the beta. So, you guys think about it. Don't simply say, and see what situations they have to.
You all must accept those AI creator. They have their thinking way. If there is no one make the AI map. Then, AI map will be vanish in DotA for further version.
HoN will not taking everything from DotA. DotA has DotA fans. HoN will have their own fans.
DotA is not under your control. Icefrog is controling DotA.
just try hon for a day dammit... from on next day u will definately quit dota for sure!!! with re connection tool... good graphic.... inbuild voip....etc.. things are easier and more fun to play.. and about the items- orbs dont stack in hon now a dayz... R.I.P dota after 1-2 years fo' sure!!! dota(old) is alwayz gold but but Hon(new) is alwayz better!!!
can I make AI maps for you guys...email me @ elmer.enriquez@ymail.com...
dota will alive 4ever...
nothing can replace dota..come on guyz!!where did HON started and orginated???its obviously from DOta so dont tell me that DOTA is dying...we'll juz hav to w8 for better improvements though,but not losing faith on icefrog!!!
GodBless DOTA Community!!!
guys, please reconsider what TONY said on his blog,note he was willing to work with BMP and help him to develop AI maps but BMP ignored the idea, i think TONY has a point on refusing making AI maps because of some developers selfishness attitude,
let's face it guys, without AI maps, DOTA on WC3 is already condemn to its fall, i love dota more than any games out there, but its inevitable that the end is near for us.
Thanks!
DotA is really different from HON from what I know, so I think DotA won't die
men.. tony you need to keep up making dota ai maps just because any newbie suffer from training in pro match newbies needs ai thats why you need it keep up the good work
uhmm.boss..I know...developing DOTA is not that easy to make sure that all of the hero in this game is fair..me.as a student that will become also a programmer...i hope so..having a game like DOTA is an AMAZING creation.so please..to all of the staff that creating this game..dont give up.go go go!!
WHY CANT ALL OF YOU JUST GIVE UP ON DOTA AND SWITCH TO HON! ITS MUCH BETTER!! mga bogok mong tanan kung cge rmog dota!
ai maps? hmpppp... if the other ai dota character have script.. its very simple to the next step for making ai maps.... i've studied map editor script for almost 6months... and now i can understand what scripts i used to my heroes.... many maps have locked for their creator for some reasons...
1. copied models
2. copied scripts
3. edited maps
4. have new version, but no credit for the creator
5. 3rd party and etc.
if any1 have their own idea or suggestion for the dota maps. plz kindly share it and make it balance.
dota maps is also ancient hero wars.
if any1 need help for their own map making and scripts problem. plz kindly email me and send your maps and leave it unlock. coz i don't want to unlocks maps for stealing..
here's my email.
wrongturnside@yahoo.com
pls post your name and your maps.
long life DOTA..
DotA won't die.Unless IceFrog die =.="
HeroesOfNewerth is not gonna take over Dota because:
1)HoN is P2P and DotA is 100% FREE
2)Dota can be played even in old com but HoN u need some hardcore graphic card and com.
3)HoN is a REPLICA/IMAGE/COPY of DotA.Original is always the best(DotA)!
If you're not gonna make AI maps then i'm wont be commenting you.Everyone has their own life.But saying Dota gonna die or replace by HoN is UNFORGIVABLE!
My heart will always be with BMP who had done so many AI maps without giving reasons like yours.
ATTENTION SEEKER
No AI maps->Fewer new players->More noobs on the internet.When I first began playing dota I played in AI maps for 7 months, then I played some games local with some friends of mine and then B-net Garena etc etc
HoN cant replace DotA
newbs need ai maps,so they could practice and learn many things from ai like lasthit,deny support.cause if u play dota for first time and play in garena every1 leaves cause of u .and evry1 know that no1 is born learned,every1 has to practice.and the good start of dota is with ai bots or playing with pros who can learn you very fast how to play
im just saying... GoD-Tony goodluck in making AI maps... but i recommend that AI BOts in Dota will be more difficult.. just see what other said to BMP... theydon't respect BMP in making AI maps they said its for Noobs... just prove to them that AI maps can help dota players to enhance their palying skill... their game reflexes... im going to see your AI maps in the future and give feed backs...
i love if Dota will be like graphics of HoN that will be so great... haha..
I entered DotA Without the help of any AI. I learnt stuff only through the passage of time. AI are alot of fun when you don't hav enough no. of ppl to play and ur not in the mood for a random game.Loosing AI is a big disadvantage indeed, BUT DOTA RULES ALL AND CAN NEVER BE EXTINGUISHED
I hope BMP will do 1 last project, to make a tutorial on how to make AI, sorry for my bad english. If BMP makes a tutorial, the Ai industry will continue
Killerbee.... actually you just wasting your time by saying all that damn words.. have you realize that dota communities increase everyday?? even in my place... btw, no dota ai map doesnt mean that no dota for us... Nothing can replace dota!!!
so if heroes of newerth place the dota ...
what u should do god-tony
I've read all of the comments AND killerbees response and all I'll say is - dudez dota cannot die 'cause even if there are no AI maps then noobs/pros will go practice with others of their league - just go play with fr-s and after a while you'll be good enough to play with others and so on and so on AND ALSO IF YOU THINK HON CAN REPLACE DOTA - NEVER!!! it may have the GRAPHICS and all of the skills have THEIR OWN skill animation, but IT ISN'T WORTH IT! NO BALANCE AT ALL!!! all the skills are OP and with NO ORB EFFECTS it's just... POINTLESS TO PLAY! there are heroes that just ARE OP and life steal stacks with EVERYTHING(just to say it) just a no-sense game that ISN'T GOING TO REPLACE DOTA cause EVEN if there are bugs/glitches/imba skills of heroes, dota IS BALANCED TO THE MAX!!! so please JUST say no and don't write STUPID STUFF LIKE DOTA MOVING AWAY FROM WC3 OR HON REPLACING IT(NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!!!!)
booohooo for u tony, too little too late i lol'd. u can just say no and not put all this drama in. bmp probably has his reasons for doing things. so go get ur drama and take it somewhere else kthxbai
HoN wouldn't replace dota..especially here in the philippines :D god bless you God-Tony
AI MAPS NOT GOOD. THE AI HEROES SOoo....
lol look at me.. 1-3 years ago I use to play dota 27b AI one of the oldest versions today.... and that time the newest one was still 49.. LOL like I'm the only one playing the oldest version now and then... AI maps helps us practice... to newbs like you all.. so I hope someday there will be a non idiotic person to make AI MAPS
COME ON.. IM THE REAL ANONYMOUS.. DONT USE MY USERNAME... ALRIGHT.. THIS IS MY COMMENT: I WILL NOT SUPPORT ANY DOTA-BASED GAMES THAT ICEFROG DIDNT MAKE..... IF DOTA DIES AND ICEFROG AND "VALVE" MAKES AN RPG GAME TOGETHER... I WILL SUPPORT THAT... AND DONT USE MY USERNAME... IM THE REAL ANONYMOUS..
Very bad news GoD-Tony i think you can make it.
Well, we say too much, we ask to improve and remove bugs, develop AI maps and this and that.. Well for a suggestion, we should not tell anyone they can screw or whatever you commented as above. We should encourage them that, We as Dota Players wont quit until its Armageddon(out of topic[sorry]). New games may come out but, the fact is we are interested in this game because we have fun times together with friends or international players that we play with because there is sense of teamwork. Well from my perspective the Community of Ai Development Should NOT STOP, otherwise it would be a waste of time for us to play the game. Well I encourage the Community to not give up to find a new developer. I respect BMP's decision, because its not so easy developing a game even though your at the top of your game developing it.
MUCH RESPECT FOR BMP,DOTA COMMUNITY, & ICEFROG.
You Guys did your best. Hope the Dota Community will grow much bigger and interesting.
One more thing, Please do not talk about others work as if we can do it better then them. Developing needs a lot hard work and time taken. Especially codding.
PEACE OUT. EVERYONE HAVE A GOOD DAY AND JUST FOR THE OTHER PLAYERS( I MAYBE NOT BE WISE, AT LEAST I KNOW HOW TO APPRECIATE PEOPLES WORK AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE FOR MAKING THE DOTA COMMUNITY GROW AND MAKE IT A BETTER GAME, SO YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING ABOUT MY COMMENT, PLEASE GO AND PRAY TO GOD WHATS WRONG WITH YOU.
-New Chapter of Dota-
it's true that dota will come to its end even if most of us refuse to admit it ... the biggest problem in dota is the community ... if we'd have to pick out the players that play in a TEAM we wouldn't get more than 20% ... so dota will come to it's end because of the players not necessarily because of the map.
abe...........saaaale.......dont underestimate dota.......its the best game on this world...u r getting salary becuz of it
hahaha
i currently have 3 weeks of DotA exp and i'm having so much fun and i don't think that i will ever get bored of DotA and leave it. i hope the community does something and bring AI maps cuz i'm learning from them!!
thanks!
dOta gOt the riGht place in this world to exist than HON !!!
keep ur own busty ai making talent for none...let it rot...with you and HON but dota will NEVER FADE!!!
(^^^)
F.U.
i want to eat cookie
i w0nder what w0uld happen t0 the t0urnaments :S
DotA is not dying at all that is your stupid opinion, have you ever gone onto youtube and type in DotA and see how much viewers there are for DotA videos? There is a fack load. And did you even see what icefrog posted onto this website about how much fans DotA has? Srsly if you cant make the AI's for DotA then w/e we dnt care their will always be some1 else, but to insult the DotA community by saying that DotA is dying onto www.dota-utilities.com then your a facktard because every1 on this website is a big fan of DotA and will easily tell you to STFU and GTFO. ^^
i played dota for 3 years now and it is the best game ever... but since starcraft 2 is coming and i have practiced the beta version, i think other pro players would do it too... so dota will not die but at least it will have less pro players but it will never die...
i tink there is no new map and new ai map.
lol
who said dota gonna die!? fuk man!
i hate HoN coz it copies the dota gaming and it is not free! as i can see dota is more natural and more fun to play. even poor people can play dota coz its free. lol
Admins....Can we make a new thread like open-source dota AI-maps? so that every one can help in scripts and AI development! thats exactly how linux has just pawned windows!....I garuntee u would get help from 1000s of programmers but no 1 person can take responsibility...its tuff!
so lets make a dota dev team! DDT :)
mga bakla
hon suck dota rawkkkkkkkkkk...
I hope GOD tony will make stronger AI than before..
i dont think that HoN will replace dota, dota wont be replace by HoN if someone will continue working with ai maps... all we need is someone will continue the work of BMP, so that HoN wont take completely control of the players... Dota and HoN will be equal.. Dont let HoN rises, Dota must rise too ! Plus Dota has a big Gap in terms of popularity to HoN right? Dont let HoN take place DOTA !!!
hey guys...i'm playing with HoN and Dota if ur saying HoN is not 100% free then play its free server edition the HoN extreme...even if hon is copied from dota... then u also says league of legends is copied... but the creator of league of legends is the creator of Warcraft and DotA... i even respect them... but i think... HoN extreme ang League of legends can beat DotA... my pro players play HoN extreme because its free server no pays and actually good and best game play... u said that because u guys NEVER PLAYED HON!!!! so you guys said HoN can't beat dota just play it before u judge
i can stick to 1 map of dota.. i just want to have fun playing with it.. even with the ai maps no problem but 1 thing for sure is that the dota community will keep on working to make dota fans happy and contented.. DoTA might not have the things that HoN have like awesome graphics, reconection tool, built in VolIP even so in DoTA you get to paly it for free.. not like HoN i played it and HON SUCKS!!.. hon have no originality.. its just like the 2nd version of Dota but boring... so all DoTA haters GTFO of this page -.-"
dotA never die you know ????!!!!! HoN won't replace DotA !!!!!!!!
Dota has been around long enough to be a legendary game like... RAGNAROK,COUNTER STRIKE,MARIO,DIABLO,,, dota doesnt get old... it is very addictive
well...
for the first time i ply dota oo =.=....
i dont knw anything cause i dont have any ai map that time bt after a while i practise by ai map then became a pro
and now no ai map?
don't u think it a bit unresonable?
also lol!!!
there is noway dota could have die!!!
dota is the best game i had ever ply lol!!!
soo~~~
plss anyone who can make ai map,i think u guy should work together lar not work by 1 plp only cause ai map is really hard to make ~.~
anyway my last word!
Dota RULE!!!!
there must be ai maps,because if there are no ai maps noobs will play with the pros and they will only feed and ruin the whole game!Anyway dota is better than HON(for me)..
Stop saying that HoN and SC2 can replace dotA. It's impossible, continue dreaming.
DotA > everything
kthxbye, you don't wanna make it? k gtfo and dont piss people off by saying 'blabla replace blabla'. I know that is your opinion, but keep it for yourself.
HON LOOKS FRESH, NEW,.... HOWEVER DOTA IS STILL THE BEST!! DEVELOPMENT IN DOTA IS IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF HAVING BETTER N LONGER GAMING... OPEN SOURCE FOR DOTA AI MAP SOUNDS A GOOD IDEA ANYWY....
ok..in this fast few months i learned something about the sourcecode and coding of Dota maps and Ai Maps..then why don't you hire me in that job?? if you like?
naah. hon cant replace dota
dota cant die.. ive been playing the game for almost 3years and im still addicted to it.
when hon was released i try it, well it was a good game
but no game can kill dota :)
its still one of the best games
1st of all, let's know about the basic things. The full understanding of the Dota game is that it's not 100% balanced, possessed its own law of sense, logic & reality such that it creates quite a decent application of justice where 2 sides of affiliation team compete to win, which is why the balance issue is mainly of great importance, its balance is fundamentally essential for the rights of everything as how & what it suppose to be including the existence of ai map, up until now. Well, Dota can be the greatest competitive-based game in the world or at least the best in its kind if truly the balance of the game is 100% as it'd yet to reach, seriously. Due to the uniquely high standard elements of knowledge, intelligence, mediation & cooperation it has to offer affect the gameplay quality giving effects on reaction of how well players can play, how interesting the game is & how exciting the game is to players. Once Dota has no bug problems, completely 100% balance issue solved, has its gameplay, visual & sound quality improve nicely & constantly, it'll be the greatest competitive game ever.
In common sense, ai map serves the purpose of not only testing a player's capabalities against artificial intelligent bot(s) but on tackling many important minor matters(last hitting, denying, farming rate, etc) and less majorly important issues(lane control, countering skills & items, etc) by practising and improving at the same time. Don't misunderstand in the difference between adapting without human players and the abilities to play well because the only high possibility the ai map is useful is because it enhance & instill the basic skills needed in playing Dota as what adapting without human implied while to play well to prove oneself isn't noob or being ahead of it can be well-improved by playing against worthy human players/pro isn't the same as training with ai bots meaning it's a training that should be played more when a player has already above noob level. So to conclude it, actually whether or not any players are noob, it doesn't matter at all as long as the results of effort on improving are worthy or effective whenever we spend time on whatever method we used that the basis of training dota don't really comes from playing only with human players but should be spiced up by playing on ai maps for some distinguishing experimental aspect we want to figure out, enhancing our conciousness, alertness and cautiousness and learning various other things related to ai bots.
The Dota communities must always encourage and strengthen their support to the workers of ai maps regardless of their point of view. Get realize that the unity of fans' support is the key of boosting morale of those workers depending on how strong the cooperation of fans to help and contributing ideas in any way they can. Believe in the developer who believe in the fans, believe that Dota'll survive & will have a bright future, don't give up in believing.
"HON CANNOT REPLACE DOTA. REMEMBER THAT ALL THE TIME GOD-TONY". The Original Will Always Win In Terms Of Popularity.
Will never die
For Anonymous 4.11P.M WE all played HoN so don't act like a immature!Creator of HoN and LoL is the same? Who cares?! If they are from same company same creator then the creator will have lots of preasure then? Balancing and updating two games at once?!And hero and item and gameplay for HoN are from IceFrog's DotA and IceFrog just approved that they can use dota's content and HoN is made by dota fan.And the so called you said 'pro players' I BET THEY ARE BUNCH OF LAMEASSES!
dota and hon will never die
but we human will get older and die
god told me so
HON is incomparable to DOTA.. Hail in DOTA xD
IM THE TRUE ANONYMOUS SO DONT COPY MY NAME: TO THOSE HON HATERS... TRY PLAYING IT FOR 1MONTH AND YOU WILL SEE THAT THERES NO SUCH THING AS STACKING ORB EFFECTS, IMBA CHARACTERS, BAD FORESTS COZ THERES NO SUCH THING AS THESE.. YOU ONLY CRITICIZE HON COZ YOU DIDNT PLAY IT FOR LONG.. THERES NO SUCH THING AS IMBA CHARACTERS COZ UR JUST IMBA WEAK TO THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS!! WARCRAFT3 WILL DIE SO JUST FRIGGIN WAIT 4 A BETTER PLATFORM
Well all i care is dat i dont want dota 2 die.
And m luking forward 2 d dota Movie asap.
Its storyline is e1 better dan Price f Persia
tony u r a basterd
there's no way that DoTa will die... it's industry is running smoothly as it is right now... and i am sure that players of this game will multiply as time pass and more versions of this map will be released...^^V
The 'TRUE ANONYMOUS' thinks he's so right that he said Dota'll die like he'd got no respect for it, huh? Well, I don't hate HON & like Dota. I know u're thinking of yourself as more clever & wiser such that u wanna make your point the ultimate fact that nobody can deny & oppose. Actually IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER that people talk bad & wrongly about HON because ONLY those who'd played HON well can tell how unterrible the game themselves that they can disregard the irrational comments not to say to be the best of the best so that as long as u rule over all the comments, u win. It's just the right thing to do for someone as arrogant as u but that also doesn't mean u can't appreciate Dota & the works of BuffMePlz which u obviously don't. U think u're all that smart? Don't make me laugh. Your mistake is that u care about small things people simply dissatisfied of & instead of caring about such a unnecessary comment, u should just gain those people's approval for HON. We give comment here not to support which one of the game is better but for the main issue, the survival of the ai map that'll lead to the survival of DotA as well. Your reason for a better platform is of course acceptable but deep down inside, u could never possibly understand the original Dota platform's tribute, prestige & authentic gameplay value so u'd better pay respect for it, individually.
the new hero Icarus is WEAK
newbies need the AI maps, i mean.. c'mon man, the next best dota player might be just starting to play now, we'll never know.. and for HoN vs DoTA, DoTA is GREAT in many ways, it updates, changes occur, tournaments are organised, etc. but to be fair for s2's HoN ('cause i played it for like 20 games), it is GREAT in its own way.. li'l respect guys..
Dota was created initially as an entertaining game to play between friends. It has developed into an expansive global game which has attracted millions of fans. The expense to players? Nothing. We do not need to invest money nor do we need to spend hours upon hours making maps and fixing bugs simply to appease the unforgiving dota community.
The purpose of AI maps is to introduce new players to the thrilling game which is Dota- it is crucial that we continue to develop the AI maps.
Whilst I myself have no skills in creating maps etc, I do have enough of a brain to see that the way we treat the developers, no WONDER they don't want to keep making maps.
In my humble opinion, if we show a little respect and help when we can, then the developers will naturally give back their all
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